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Research Experience for Prospective PhD Candidates

New section.

Most graduate schools will expect applicants to have practical experience in a lab. A strong application portfolio will most likely include participation in research throughout the undergraduate years, both during the academic year and the summers.

It's important that you pursue research opportunities during the academic year and summers (which provide full-time experience) to immerse yourself in a laboratory/project and to show your commitment and motivation for research. The letters of recommendation from your research mentors are a very important part of your graduate school application.

Making the most of your summer experiences

• Participate in research summer programs throughout the undergraduate years. These can be at your home institution or at other institutions.
• Identify and apply to several summer programs. This will give you a preview of the application process for graduate school.
• Apply to summer programs that take place at schools where you may be interested in pursuing your graduate degree.
• Complete and submit the application materials during the prior winter/spring.
• Become fully immersed in the research projects that you work on.
• Talk with advanced students and faculty advisors about graduate school and their experiences.
• Take advantage of other skill-building activities that the summer program offers.

Finding opportunities

• Summer Undergraduate Research Programs.
• NIH Summer Internship Program in Biomedical Research.
• NIH Undergraduate Scholarship Program.

Baylor College of Medicine/National Science Foundation brochure on the importance of summer research experience.

Helpful tools and information regarding medical MD-PhD programs.

Helpful tools for those applying to medical PhD programs

Princeton Correspondents on Undergraduate Research

Tips for Writing about Your Research Experience (Even if You Don’t Think You Have Any)

If you’re someone who hasn’t yet done formal research in a university setting, one of the most intimidating parts of the process can be simply getting your foot in the door. Just like the way your options can seem very limited when applying for your first job, asking for a research position when you have no “experience” can seem discouraging — maybe even to the point of causing you to question whether you should apply in the first place. With that being said, there are some simple tips you can employ when applying for research positions to highlight the link between your existing interests and the work of the position for which you are applying.

First things first: tailor not just your cover letter (for applications that ask for it) but your resume to the position for which you are applying. Even if you’re just sending a casual email to a professor to ask about the research that they’re doing, as a rule, it never hurts to attach your resume. I also like to think that submitting a resume even without being asked to shows that you’re serious about doing research, and have taken the time to put together a thoughtful inquiry into a position. If you’ve never written a cover letter or resume before, don’t fret. The Center for Career Development has some great online resources to help you create one from scratch. If you are looking for more individualized help, you can also schedule an appointment to get one-on-one feedback on your application at any stage in the writing process.

One of the things that I’ve found, however, is that the single-page format of a resume often isn’t enough space to include all of the information about every single thing you’ve ever done. Rather than trying to jam as many impressive accomplishments as you can onto a page, your goal should be to create a resume that gives a cumulative sense of your interests and experiences as they relate to the position for which you are applying. One of my favorite ways to do this is to create a “Research” section. “But Kate, what if I don’t have any research experience?,” you ask. Remember that paper you wrote about a painting by Monet in your favorite class last semester? Write the title down, or even a sentence or two that summarizes your main argument. The art museum you’re hoping to do research at will love knowing that your interest in their current exhibition on Impressionism is rooted in classes you’ve taken and the projects you’ve done in them, no matter how new you may be to a topic. Your interest in a specific research position has to come from somewhere, and your resume is an important part of demonstrating this to others.

What I would like to reassure you of is that it’s normal to be an undergraduate with very little research experience. The people reading your application —whether it be for an official program or even if it’s just a friendly email with a few questions— know that you are a student and will probably be excited to offer you guidance on how to get involved with more specific research projects even if all you have to offer at this point is enthusiasm for the topic. Working in a lab or with a professor on a research project is an opportunity designed to help you learn above all else, so it’s ok if you don’t know what you’re doing! It goes without saying that having little experience will make the final result of your research experience all the more worthwhile because of the potential to gain knowledge in ways you haven’t even imagined.

— Kate Weseley-Jones, Humanities Correspondent

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Grad School: How Do I “Get Research Experience” for an I/O Psychology Master’s/Ph.D.?

Grad School Series: Applying to Graduate School in Industrial/Organizational Psychology Starting Sophomore Year:  Should I get a Ph.D. or Master’s?  |  How to Get Research Experience Starting Junior Year:  Preparing for the GRE  |  Getting Recommendations Starting Senior Year:  Where to Apply  |  Traditional vs. Online Degrees  |  Personal Statements Alternative Path: Managing a Career Change to I/O  | Pursuing a PhD Post-Master’s Interviews/Visits:  Preparing for Interviews  |  Going to Interviews In Graduate School:  What to Expect First Year Rankings/Listings: PhD Program Rankings | Online Programs Listing

So you want to go to graduate school in industrial/organizational (I/O) psychology? Lots of decisions, not much direction. I bet I can help!

While my undergraduate students are lucky to be at a school with I/O psychologists, many students interested in I/O psychology aren’t at schools with people they can talk to. I/O psychology is still fairly uncommon in the grand scheme of psychologists; there are around 7,000 members of SIOP , the dominant professional organization of I/O, compared to the 150,000 in the American Psychological Association . As a result, many schools simply don’t have faculty with expertise in this area, leading many promising graduate students to apply elsewhere. That’s great from the perspective of I/O psychologists – lots of jobs – but not so great for grad-students-to-be or the field as a whole.

As a faculty member at ODU with a small army of undergraduate research assistants , I often find myself answering the same questions over and over again about graduate school. So why not share this advice with everyone?

This week, I’d like to talk about an important step in preparation to enter grad school: How do I get “research experience”?

The amount of research experience you need really depends on your answer to the first big question .  If you’re planning to go into a Master’s program, research experience is nice but not required.  If you’re planning to go into a Ph.D. program, it’s a must if you want to get into even a slightly competitive program.  Remember, almost everyone that wants a Ph.D. is smart; you need to distinguish yourself from other applicants in other ways, and lab experience is an important way to do that.

If you are at a school with a sizable research-oriented psychology program (typically large public universities), then you’ve got it easy; there are probably lots of faculty actively looking for undergraduate research assistants (URAs or sometimes just RAs).  The easiest way to become an RA at such a school is to ask one of the faculty that can vouch for you.  For example, if you were vocal in your Personality Psych class and you have a good relationship with that instructor, ask that person to help you find a URA position.  Even if s/he doesn’t have a lab or isn’t looking, you’ll still get pointed in the right direction.  And believe me, as faculty, a good word about your trustworthiness from a colleague will go a long way. Even if I’m not actively looking for URAs, if another faculty member tells me, “I had a GREAT student and she wants to be an RA,” I’ll often bring that student on board anyway.

You might wonder why trustworthiness is an important quality in a URA – it is in fact the most important quality.  This is because the primary role of an URA is simply to show up where you need to show up, on time and without incident.  We don’t expect URAs to advance the cause of science – we know you’ll be trained later as a graduate student to do that.  Instead, we expect you to fill the vital roles of data coder, session proctor, and recruiter.  These roles are the front lines of research.  You cannot yet imagine how frustrating it is to develop the perfect research study, schedule a URA to run the session, and then to get a series of panicked e-mails from undergraduate research participants at the door of your research lab with no one to meet them.  Avoid that, prove that you are reliable, and that’s also something we can comment on in our recommendation letters – something other faculty are looking for.

So what if you’re motivated to pursue an I/O degree but there aren’t any I/O research labs to join?  Not a problem.  You see, research faculty in I/O know that we are a somewhat rare commodity, and most of us understand that working in an I/O lab is unattainable for many qualified applicants.  So experience is an I/O lab is not critical; you just need experience in any psychology lab.  This shows us that you know what you’re getting into and understand what research really involves.  I/O experience is certainly better – but if you simply don’t have access to it, we understand.

Now we get to the difficult cases: what if you’re at a college without any psychology researchers?  I’ve heard a number of approaches to this problem, including working by remote at other universities (some faculty will take virtual URAs), summer research assistantships (these are often called REU programs ), and simply traveling to the big university a few towns over a few times per week.  If you want to go to graduate school, especially if you want a Ph.D., you need research experience and a close working relationship with faculty if you want good chances at getting in.  Do whatever it takes.  And fortunately, if you end up having to go to all this extra effort, you have an added advantage: it’ll be clear that you’re a serious applicant worth consideration.

• Grad School: How Do I Prepare for Inteviews at I/O Psychology Master’s/Ph.D. Programs?
• Grad School: Where Should I Apply for a Master’s/Ph.D. in I/O Psychology?
• Grad School: How Do I Get Recommendations for Master’s/Ph.D. Programs in I/O Psychology?
• Grad School: Should I Get a Ph.D. or Master’s in I/O Psychology?
• Grad School: How Do I Prepare for the GRE for an I/O Psychology Master’s/Ph.D.?

from → Advising , Graduate Students , Professorship , Undergraduates

I am currently an incoming Sophomore at a junior college. I know it isn’t impossible to get research experience in my situation, but I’m not quite sure to go about it. I’m currently compiling a list of professors at local schools that I plan to e-mail to ask about opportunities. Other than a resume and maybe a letter from my current boss( I work as support staff for an educational support program), do you think that it would be beneficial for me to include a rec letter from my psychology professor as well? Or any other materials, or things I just specifically say in my letter? My chances way prove to be fairly small since I am not at their school, but I figured that simply asking will not hurt.

The best way to do this would actually be to go through your current professors entirely – ask if any of them know any of the psych professors you are targeting that would be willing to ask on your behalf. If you don’t know your current profs well enough to ask that, then I would probably instead just send an email and attach an unofficial transcript to those profs you want to work with. In that email, I would describe why you think their research lab is doing interesting work, indicating that you’d love to be involved with it and that you are happy to spend x number of hours per week working on it even though it’s at a different school. If you don’t get replies, I would then call their offices during office hours. Key to all of this is that you do your research – get familiar with what their lab does, what’s interesting about it, how many people are in their lab, etc. Your knowledge and enthusiasm to go above and beyond is what will be impressive.

Thank you so much for your help and advice ! I will definitely do that.

Hi Richard,

I messaged you awhile back about trying to get research experience while I am still at the community college. I spoke to one of my psychology professors who I know very well, who informed me that she does not know many people in the I/O field, but would be pleased to help me any way that she can. I am an incoming sophomore in the upcoming fall, and was wondering if it would be acceptable for me to just try to get into ANY psychology lab, or even human resources management or organizational behavior. I currently have a 4.0 and can get a letter of recommendation from my boss ( I work at the Upward Bound office at my school which is a program that helps low-income/first-generation students get into college), either counselor ( I have two counselors, both from outreach programs), or my psychology professor. I also have a letter of recommendation from a Pantry Manager from a food pantry that I volunteered at in the fall of my freshman year. Should I attach a letter of recommendation from one of my professors to boost my chances?

Also, if I am planning to reach out to several professors at a few campuses, would you recommend that I e-mail as many as I can and deal with who replies or should I really focus on trying to get into labs that are as close to being I/O psych related as possible?

Thank you so much for your help! Your blog has given me a wealth of extremely useful information and I can’t even explain how grateful I am for this blog!

I/O is better, but any psych research experience is good. OBHR folks don’t usually have big labs (not many grad or undergrad RAs in most), so that will be more difficult to find, but it is basically the same thing as IO experience if you can land one. The key here is that lab experience gives you two things: 1) experience being a researcher and 2) work experience within I/O. #1 is more important than #2, especially so if you have a clear motivation (which you can explain in your personal statement) for wishing to pursue a career in IO. If you have experience in a non-IO lab and you don’t have a good reason for wanting to spend the rest of your life practicing IO, that will be a bit weird in an application packet.

I would try emailing them in groups of 2 or 3, and waiting a few days between batches. If they don’t respond in 2-3 days, you have a good reason for having contacted someone else. Attaching a letter won’t help as much as attaching an unofficial transcript with a lot of As on it.

Thank you for you reply! I will definitely e-mail them in batches, and call during office hours for those I am very interested in. This may be a silly question, but I want to make sure that I am doing this correctly…. In order to research professors and what their labs are doing, is there any other way to find out other than going through the school website, looking through faculty, and simply clicking on whoever has a website? I noticed that some professors do not have any links to information about what their lab is doing so I’m not sure if I am looking in the right place.

Also, in another post you mentioned that one of your students in your lab is conducting their own research, while volunteering in 3 other labs total. How can I go about conducting my own research and publishing it?

Lastly, from what I’ve read, it seems that GPA, GRE scores, research experience, and letters of recommendation are the most important when trying to get into a PhD program. Is there anything else that I can do to boost my chances, or should I really focus on getting those couple of things as close to perfect as possible? Do you think that being on the executive board of a club at my school will be useful? Or being an intern at a consulting place? Thank you so much for the help!

Website, recent publications (e.g., by searching for their name in PsycINFO), and talking to them or people in their labs are really your only options. Not everyone has a website, but their publications should be in PsycINFO. If you can’t find a website or publications, they probably aren’t actively conducting research (and won’t have a lab).

Conducting your own research is a very difficult goal, but possible if you have a highly supportive lab advisor. I’d suggest mentioning this as a long-term goal when on the phone or meeting with potential research advisors.

What you’ve listed are most important for PhD programs. An internship will help for Master’s programs. Leadership and club membership won’t matter to most programs unless they are I/O focused clubs and something you can talk about that way in your personal statement. As a rule, extracurriculars generally don’t count for grad school. 🙂

I will definitely use PsycINFO and just try to google professors. Also, are labs generally open from 9-5 or what are their hours like? My school schedule is roughly 9-5 Mondays- Thursdays this semester. I will likely be working on Friday and Saturday.

Also, how difficult do you think it will be for me to get into a lab? I have a 4.0 right now. I want to take the officer position if it is unlikely for me to get into the lab as a sophomore that is also out of their school. I still want to try, but wanted to know my approximate odds before I accept the position. Thank you so much again. It feels redundant but I really want to express my gratitude for your awesome blog and quick replies!

That varies a great deal by lab and by responsibilities. If the labs actively run participants in-person (opposed to online), it can be anywhere 8am-10pm, 7 days a week. If they mostly run online or archival research studies, you’ll work mostly from home. If there are regular lab meetings, they are usually in the middle of the day somewhere, between one and four times per month. But everywhere is different. URA scheduling is typically pretty flexible, but it depends. The only consistent bit is that they will want you to devote a bare minimum amount of your time regularly, at least 5 hours per week, sometimes 10 or 20.

I don’t have any way to predict your odds. When students at my university ask me, I bring in most of them, at least as long as a project is open and needing assistance. But there also aren’t that many asking (maybe 5 per year). So it entirely depends on who you have access to, what their mentoring expectations are, how many students the already have, if they have work available, etc. No way to know until you try!

I’m very sorry that I’m posting so much on the blog, but I am trying to do as much information gathering as I can over the summer before fall starts for me. I really appreciate all of your help and advice!

My first question is about etiquette for volunteer lab positions.. I got a reply back from a professor I contacted through e-mail, and she seemed very excited to hear from me. I followed your advice and researched heavily about what she has done, current research projects in her lab, and read all of the information available on the school website. However, she told me that for me to volunteer in the lab, she wants me to go to an open house in mid-september. The time is tentative, but currently, it is at a time that I have class and will not be able to go. I asked if I could meet with her another time, to which she said yes, but also told me that the time the open house is at will likely be the time that her lab runs. She said that it might change depending on the schedule of those in the lab, but she will not know any information until much later. I genuinely was very interested in their work and am honestly disappointed that I might not be able to participate. However, I can’t afford to just sit around and hope that the time will change. In the meantime, should I just look for another lab?

Also, this professor told me that the lab is open for about 1.5hrs, which means that to do a 5 hour total I would have to go there at least 3 times a week. The drive is about 30 minutes with no traffic, but can be up to 1+hr if there is traffic. Is this normal, or are lab hours very unique?

Lastly, this is more related to grad school admissions but I figured it will be easier to ask everything in one place. I’ve heard that some schools have grade inflation, and that grad admissions people are aware of this. For example, the person said that a 3.5 at Berkeley is the same as a 4.0 at Stanford because of the inflation. Or that a 3.5 at Berkeley is the same or better than a 4.0 at Davis. Is this true? On a related note, does prestige of your school/people who write your letter of recommendation hold that much weight in grad admissions?

Thank you so much!

No worries on posting a lot!

An open house is an unusual thing for a lab to do, unless that lab is exceptionally popular. But if the professor seemed excited about your interest, it is probably in your best interest to skip class and go to the open house. At least, that is what I would do (and did) in such a situation. I would also recommend explaining this to the person whose class you’d miss well in advance of missing it. If you tell them you need to miss class in order to apply to a research lab, most professors would consider that a worthwhile reason and help you to catch up. And even if they won’t help you catch up, I’d probably still recommend you go, if that’s your only/best option.

The hours, as I mentioned before, vary by institution. Did the professor say you were expected to be present 5 hours per week, and only during those 1.5 hours each day? You may be able to work partly from home, or from Skype, or any variety of other options. These would be things to explore during the “open house” if you haven’t already asked by email.

You’re only partly talking about grade inflation. All schools have grade inflation. Decades ago, average performance was intended to be a mid-C – 75 – which means about three-quarters of the class should get Cs, about 27% Bs and Ds, and about 2.5% As and Fs. No one grades like that anymore, and schools vary in the effect of inflation (most schools grade B-heavy, some A-heavy). But you’re mostly talking about different grading standards between institutions – high grades in one school being “harder” to get than another – and that is well known in admissions. That is why standardized test scores tend to be so much more important in admissions decisions – it is the only way you can realistically compare one student to another.

Prestige of your school matters in sort of odd ways in I/O. In psychology departments in the Ivies, where pretentiousness is a way of life, you want to have letters from other Ivies. But I/O doesn’t really deal with that. Our best schools are all public universities in the Midwest. So prestige of the school is not really related to education quality coming in. Where prestige matters is prestige within the I/O community – high program rankings, or highly published individual faculty, for example. If you have a letter from someone in a great I/O program whose name people recognize that says you’re awesome, that’s going to have a much greater impact than a letter from a random professor somewhere. But those kinds of letters are pretty rare, in general.

Thank you for the reply! I think that her lab is very popular, but I’m not sure if the open house is for the grad school. I really wouldn’t mind skipping class just once, however, my school has very strict attendance policies. I will speak to my professor once school is closer to beginning. My only concern is that she did tell me that the open house time is the same time that the lab will be open. So it is likely that if I’m not able to attend the open house then I willot beble to attend the lab meetings. However, I will wait until I found out the certain times for then lab before I shoot it down because I’d really love to be involved in what they do. In the meantime, should I look for another lab?

Also, how can I find out how good the program is? Or how well known the professors are? Ive looked at SIOP rankings for grad schools, but didn’t see any of the California programs on it at all. Do you happen to know of Claremont has a good program? Donaldson specifically seems to be very well published. I’m considering Claremont Graduate University as one of the grad schools I’d like to apply to, but was wondering if Positive Organizational Behavior is a good PhD to receive. It’s very interesting but I already know I want to work in industry after getting my PhD so I want to make sure it’s a worthwhile degree. They also have a regular OB program as well. I’d prefer to stay in California for grad school but I know that will be difficult for I/O given that I/O originated in the Midwest. I looked at the SIOP list of grad schools, and noticed that Cornell and harvared both have programs. But none of them even placed on SIOP rankings. The SIOP ranking of grad schools is a bit old though. Is there another way to find out how good a program is? I’d really love to seriously narrow down what grad schools I’d like to apply to, and right now I know I want to specialize in OB/leadership. Specializing in Positive OB would also be really interesting.

Now, about the grades… Is there a way I can find out how grades from each school varies? I’d still do my absolute best no matter where I go but it would be quite soothing to know this information. Also, do you think my odds are better at trying every professor at a university about 30mins-1hr away from actually offers I/O related fields or it’s better to email professors no matter how far away they are to volunteer online? This will open my opportunities a lot more if this is an option, given that I am in California. Thank you for your help!!

Ahh, it’s a general open house for visitors. I would still make every effort to go, if I were you. In fact, sacrificing your class performance and grades for research is something you’ll experience a lot in grad school. 🙂 But sure, keep looking. As long as they haven’t committed to you, you haven’t committed to them.

Rankings are a tricky business. Just like college rankings, they are only meaningful if you value the dimensions that are being ranked. But for grad school, your personal relationships with faculty are much more important (and can make or break a career), which aren’t captured by rankings. You will need to decide what’s important to you (e.g., reputation among psychology departments like captured by US News and World Report, quality of student experience as captured by one survey, research productivity as captured by another) and then seek out schools with those characteristics. I will give you a few tips though.

“Positive psych” in general is still considered a bit faddish. There’s no telling if it will stick around or not, and there’s a fairly large contingent in academia (maybe less so in industry) that doesn’t take it seriously. That may interest or it may worry you – that is up to you to decide, and by necessity a managed career risk.

“How well known the professors are” is not as straightforward as you might think. One of the reasons I recommend in so many comments in the PhD vs Master’s article that you talk to current grads is that reputation is not usually national. It is usually local. So when you’re looking for a job, the reputation of your advisor and your school with a particular community is what gets you a job. For example, if you attended George Mason, that school is highly connected in the Washington DC area (because that is where it’s located). But if you tried to get a job in Missouri, they might have never even heard of Mason, and that reputation does nothing for you.

You should be applying to at least a dozen schools, across the country, targeting those that have mean GRE scores around yours and have faculty with interests that match yours. If you want a strong IO degree, staying in California is going to be difficult. There just aren’t many schools there unless you go into a business school, which brings many disadvantages and a few advantages. OB (and HR) and IO are not the same, although there are some commonalities, so I’d be careful on that front. Unlike psych programs, business schools are almost universally in the trade of training future business school faculty. They don’t generally train people to be practitioners.

I’m not sure what you mean by grades. Once you are in a PhD program, no one will look at your transcript ever again. Grades only matter insofar as you are gaining skills that will help you in your career and grades, to some degree, symbolize that you’ve learned something (hopefully). Only your college grades will factor into admissions decisions (but usually not that strongly, as long as you are over 3.5ish). GRE scores are going to be much more critical with research experience right behind that. After you’re in grad school, no one will ever again look at (or care about) your undergrad transcript again, and only rarely (if ever) your graduate transcript.

Online research experience is very uncommon these days. I would try to stay local.

I will listen to your advice and go to the open house 🙂 Do labs accept volunteers year round or do they usually pick up people at the beginning or end of a semester?

I know that the rankings aren’t everything, but I don’t have many people who know a lot about I/O other than a subreddit devoted to I/O on reddit.com and you! And of course, SIOP. I think once I narrow my list down more of schools that interest me, I will ask for opinions on the school.

The bit about reputation being relative to the location of the school makes a lot of sense. This was one of my large concerns because my long term goal is to live in San Francisco. I’m afraid that if I go to the school in the midwest, but try to come back to California, it will be much more difficult. Do you think this will happen? I noticed that the BLS stat of where I/O psychologists work had a decent number in CA ( http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes193032.htm ) so I wanted to go to a school that will eventually get me there. However, I am very willing to move around for grad school, and for a few years during my early employment.

I will avoid the business schools then, because I really want to go the applied route. For the grades part, I was referring to how schools have different grading standards between institutions. However, this seems to not matter now since I know that I really need to focus on performing well on the GRE.

I am honestly very happy to hear that prestige of my school isn’t everything in I/O.

That varies by lab too. We usually bring people on when we start new projects that require them or at the beginning of semesters, but some do so more regularly.

Once you are out for a few years, you have experience and potentially a portfolio. At that point, as long as you’re doing a good job, you can move pretty much anywhere that takes I/Os. Grad school connections matter most for your first job.

I don’t know that there are many IO jobs in San Francisco though, in general. IO is not very common on the west coast, in general. The page you listed doesn’t show SF as an IO area, and I haven’t personally heard of many jobs out there. Google has IOs, but it’s a pretty small team. Maybe 5-10 people? If location of employment is your first concern, I don’t know that I’d recommend IO. We’re tied pretty strongly to a handful of metro areas.

I guess I can’t be picky about the location of my first one or two jobs then. I’ve been looking at some of the companies that are pretty much I/O exclusive and a lot of them have locations in D.C. or NYC, which I definitely wouldn’t mind living in. I also noticed a lot of them in Chicago and Pittsburgh which wouldn’t be too bad. Do you think that over the next few years there will be more companies who expand into the west? There were not that many I/O specific firms who had offices in California, although there were some.

Location isn’t my first concern, although it’s definitely a factor to consider. All of my family is in California and I don’t want to be far away in the long run. Although, I don’t mind being away while I’m in grad school or even during my first job. I will just have to do a very good job at my first place of employment so I can have a profile good enough to land me a rare spot in California..

I doubt it, at least for the immediate future. It was something I noticed when I was trying to identify grad schools a decade ago, and nothing has really changed. You can always start your own private consulting firm, though!

Hello Richard,

I feel so bad that the entire comments page is filled with my plethora of questions, and I really appreciate you answering everything! I know that you’ve said that whether or not you have I/O experience is not a big deal because I/O folks will understand that it is hard to find an I/O lab. I honestly can’t afford to go to any of the private schools, or go to a public university outside of California, which are usually the ones that offer good I/O programs. I know that UC Irvine has an Organizational Leadership program, and UC Berkeley is listed under the SIOP list of schools that offer IO but it’s just for Psychology. Should I go to these schools as opposed to UC Los Angeles or UC Davis, which isn’t listed at all in the SIOP page?

Also, I know that it is difficult to predict what all grad schools will do in this situation, but what if I apply to a PhD program with no I/O experience? Will that be a huge disadvantage compared to those who do have I/O experience? I will likely also have an honors thesis, poster presentation/my own research, and at least 2 years of research experience in a few labs. I would consider myself fairly personable, very responsible, and always eager to help, so hopefully I will get good letters of rec also. I can’t predict my GRE score or GPA but I know I plan to do as much as I can to get both as close to perfect as I can.

Lastly.. I noticed that your timeline prepares students to get into their program right out of undergrad. This is honestly perfect for me, and it is my goal. However, how difficult is it to get into a good PhD program right out of undergrad?

Again, I can not thank you enough for answering all of my questions and being extremely helpful! Have a great day!

I’m not sure what you mean by “afford” if you want to attend a PhD program. PhD programs are generally free to the student. Arrangements usually involve working as a teaching assistant in exchange for free tuition plus a salary (right now, generally in the neighborhood of $12K – $20K per year – which isn’t a lot, but certainly enough to live on if you don’t need to pay tuition). If a PhD program does not fund its students, I would recommend you avoid it.

A lack of IO experience will be a disadvantage but not a critical one as long as you have high GREs and lab experience somewhere with strong letters of recommendation. That is unfortunately as prescriptive as I can get. It all comes down to a case-by-case basis – and as I’ve mentioned before, sometimes you are qualified for a graduate program and can’t get a spot due to reasons outside of your control. Luck (and timing) end up being a substantial component, which is why you need to apply broadly. A great applicant will probably end up with about a 50% hit rate for the graduate schools they apply to. A not-great applicant will often only have 1, maybe 2 choices if they are lucky, when applying to a dozen or more.

It is more difficult to wait to go into a PhD program. I would recommend going straight from undergrad unless you have a very good reason (e.g., if you aren’t sure you want a PhD). If you know you want a PhD, you shouldn’t wait to apply.

Thank you for the quick reply! For not being able to afford a private school or public non CA school, I was referring to my undergrad. I don’t qualify for financial aid and will need to pay for undergrad on my own, so I’m really trying to be frugal. This is why I decided to go to a community college for 2 years, and then transfer. I was beginning to consider just taking out loans and such to fund going to a school where getting into an I/O lab is an option, but it seems that I/O people are reasonable about not having I/O experience so long as I can prove myself in other ways. I really want to do as much as I can to get into a good program, but if it isn’t critical to get I/O experience then I will avoid getting myself into massive debt unnecessarily.

I will definitely be avoiding anywhere that does not fund its students. Thank goodness I have researched about I/O on your site and other places so I will make sure I find a school that will fund me!

Spectacular! It’s very good to hear that it is better to go straight from undergrad. I was nervous because I’ve seen the stats of people who took a break while working in a lab or something else, and wasn’t sure how common that was. Anyways, I will still try my best because the competition is still very stiff.

Hi Richard, Thanks for putting this information together. It’s been extremely helpful! I wanted to know what you thought about my situation. At my college in our senior year, we have to create our own research proposal, and follow through with our own research, conduct a study within availability and a small budget (usually recruiting college students for our studies) Finish the technical paper, and do a poster presentation on our study and findings. While the research isn’t lead by a professor (as in we are not research assistants), we are advised throughout the research process and have to have approval of each step by a professor. Do you think that most graduate schools would see this as valid research experience? Thanks for your help. -Sean

That would definitely be seen as research experience, but it is somewhat less impressive than the type of research I describe here. If that’s the only research experience you have, you’ll be at a disadvantage to other students with more traditional experience – plus you won’t have the type of rec letters that are most impressive.

Thanks again for your help Richard! One more question. At my school, I have to either do a senior Thesis, or take part in an internship (I would find an IO psychology based internship). Which one would be more helpful with getting into grad school. Or is that important? thanks -Sean

If you want to attend a high-ranking graduate school, a publishing-quality empirical thesis would be best. If the choice was between a lit review thesis and an internship, I’d probably recommend the internship.

Thank you for this fantastic resource into I/O education. I graduated with a B.A. in Psychology in 2007 from San Francisco State University and have been working in retail management for the last 7 years. I have decided to go back to school to get a master’s in I/O but don’t have a clue on where to start. I did not gain any research lab experience while in undergrad. I worked in human resources, learning and development and training while working in management. What do you recommend I do? I am not sure where to get letters of recommendation when I have not spoken to professors in 7 years. I am willing to do what I need to do but I just need some guidance.

That’s a difficult path. It depends if you want to get into a decent program or if your goal is just to get a degree (e.g., if you need one to be promoted). If you want to get into a decent program, you’re going to need either direct I/O experience or research experience. For direct I/O experience, which is probably the easier path given where you are now, you would want to do “I/O type” activities within HR. L&D is good, as long as you’ve been engaged in higher level L&D – training design, for example. Just being a corporate trainer giving lectures or guided group discussions is not as relevant. On the more general HR side, you would want to have engaged in team or leadership development, selection system design, legal evaluation, etc. Front-line HR is not as relevant. If you’ve done any of those things, you can ask your supervisors and peers in those positions (assistant director or director of HR, for example) to be your letter writers. That’s fine. But it needs to be someone who can comment on your potential for I/O-type work. If you haven’t done any I/O-type work yet, you might want to make yourself more available to HR to try to get more such experience.

The research option is to volunteer 10-20 hours per week in a local IO psych research lab. You probably don’t want to do that given other options.

I have explored the SIOP website thoroughly and am considering being a student member. Do you think that it is worth it for me as a sophomore to be a student member? I looked at the benefits of membership and it seems good!

Also, I am currently trying to submit to a conference in my area. I can submit it as Anthropology or Psychology (not sure if I can do both yet). My professor told me that Anthropology usually is less popular and I might have a better chance of getting into the conference in general if I apply under Anthropology. If I do this, will this make my research less credible in terms of grad school? Does it matter what field or research experience in, or is any research experience good enough?

The primary benefits to membership at the student level are access to the I/O journals and a discount on the SIOP conference. If the SIOP conference is something feasible for you to attend, I’d recommend attending to get a sense of what I/O is like, and to do that, you do get a significant discount as a member. So I’d definitely do that. The IOP:Perspectives journal should be available to you via your current university, so that’s not particularly compelling by itself, although you would get the newsletter. I don’t know that $50 per year would be worth a newsletter, but that’s up to you!

The closer you are to I/O Psychology, the better. The further away you are, the less convincing the evidence that you really know what working in an I/O lab would be like. Psychology labs outside of I/O are generally “close enough”. Anthropology is still a social science, so that’s sort of similar, but it is far enough away that some folks making admissions decisions would question if you really knew what you were getting into.

To be honest, the perspectives of these two fields are quite different when talking about “current research” – the types of questions, research methods, etc. likely to get into an anthropological conference and a psychological conference are quite different. So unless you included measures/methods/etc appropriate to both fields, your paper is probably more likely to get into one versus the other if only due to the decisions you made in putting together your study.

Thank you for all of the great info on your page. My current situation is as follows: I am a recent grad, and just now decided that I wanted to pursue I/O psych. I don’t think I would qualify for doing undergrad research at my old institution, what do you recommend for me to do?

You need research experience, one way or another. If your undergrad was in psych, I would still recommend reaching out to your psych faculty and asking if you can volunteer as a recent grad. I’ve had several students stay on as volunteers for a year or two after graduation at ODU for that very reason. If you didn’t get a psych degree, things are much more complicated.

I’m currently a college sophomore, and will be transferring from my JC to a UC this fall. I am curious what your opinion is on summer assistantships. I plan to be heavily involved in research labs, as well as my own research during the school year. I recently just got rejected to a summer program ( I only applied to one because I already got a job lined up as backup).

Do you think it’s necessary for me to really push to get into research programs next year? Or is it not necessary ? I’ve talked to a few of my professors that people get into PhD programs just fine without participation in summer research programs.

I’m only busy for about 2 months out of the 5 months I have off before I start school in the fall. I got a GRE prep book and plan to study a lot during this time. Should I try to find an internship? Or just try to become a volunteer at a local school?

Also, I’ve seen that some people are able to help with research remotely. How do I sign up for this? Do I just e-mail the people in charge of the lab and explain that I want to help them from home?

Thank you!! 🙂

You don’t necessarily need a summer internship, but you do need experience – and more experience is better than less. So if you get that experience through a focused summer internship or through regular semester experience doesn’t particularly matter – you just need it from somewhere. Because summer programs are competitive, and because the faculty that run them are usually invested in undergraduate research education, the experience you get through that sort of experience is typically much more intense, and more educational, than what you get by volunteering in a lab. You often end up working much more closely with faculty. So it is often better. But it isn’t critical.

For working on research at a distance, it depends upon the faculty member. But yes, you would just contact them and ask. In my experience, such arrangements are very uncommon; most of the things that undergrad research assistantships are needed to help wtih are in-person problems, like running participants through an experimental protocol. But there are some tasks that can be done at a distance, so this will vary greatly by lab/faculty.

Hi Dr. Landers,

For applications to I/O grad programs, are there any consequences for taking more than 4 years to complete undergrad?

I’m considering postponing graduation by one year to gain more research experience and to build stronger relationships with my professors. I don’t have much research experience, and I’m heading into my senior year this fall so I don’t have much time to build up a solid profile before applications are due.

Would spending an additional year volunteering in labs, completing an honours thesis, and improving my GPA be the best way to improve my candidacy? This seems like a great idea to me, but I’m not sure if grad programs have a different view on this kind of thing.

Would I be better served by working full-time in HR while continuing to volunteer in labs on the side? Or would you suggest something else entirely? Any insight you can offer is really appreciated.

This is all great information! Because I seem to be in a state that has remotely no IO based programs for further degrees in this field, I am at loss of what to do. I live in Arizona and currently will be graduating next year with my BS in psychology. I am up for a RA Position to get some experience in research for grad school. I am really confused on what schools I should attend because I can’t find any here locally. Is online even accredited? Also, is there anyway I can go straight for applying for a PHD program instead of my MA? Thank you!

1) Most people can’t stay local in order to attend a good school. I moved from Tennessee to Minnesota myself. Online is generally risky – see my linked online vs. traditional article for more on that. 2) If you know you want to pursue a PhD, you should not go into a Master’s program first – you should apply straight to PhD programs. Getting a Master’s first generally makes it harder to get into a decent PhD program.

Thank you for responding! So you think I should go for the PHD first? I have one more year at ASU and have about a 3.8 GPA. If I do get this RA position, will this be efficient enough to apply for a PHD program? Should I be applying now with only a year left and the fact that I probably wouldn’t have my overall GPA or letters of recommendation yet? Do you have any suggestions of schools near AZ? It almost seems impossible due to financial reasons for me to move states. Thank you!

If you want a PhD, you should go straight to PhD. If you want a Master’s, you should get a Master’s. So it depends on your goals.

A single RA is certainly a step in the right direction, but most of the top PhD candidates have been in several labs. So it is better than nothing, but I would try to get some summer volunteer research experience, if I were you.

There are no major I/O schools in Arizona that I’m aware of. There are a couple of I/O schools in California, but they are not generally ranked well. Moving across the country is pretty typical for PhD students. However, the fact that tuition is free and you complete a paid assistantship in most programs helps offset the cost of moving and living someplace new. Most PhD students finish with little or no debt, unless they want the higher standard of living that student loan debt allows.

I’ve written here before but I now have a different set of concerns due to changed circumstances. I am now doing research at the New York State Psychiatric Institute/Columbia but it’s a study that is in no way related to I/O. Is this pretty much just like having no research experience? I have a very low GPA (3.2) and have yet to take my GRE. I plan to do this research for at least a year and although the it’s not related to I/O it is very hands on and I am getting a great idea into the various components that go into research on a larger scale. Will this along with (hopefully) very strong GRE’s make me a somewhat strong candidate for a PhD program? If not, are there any suggestions for what I can do to make myself more appealing? Thank you so much!

Any research experience is certainly better than none. Remember that the goal of undergrad research experience is to demonstrate that you understand what the grunt work of being a grad student is like. So the closer your psychiatric research experience is to I/O, the better. Most students don’t have access to local I/O groups, so general research experience is generally fine, although I/O-specific experience would certainly give you a slight leg up. I don’t know what your RAship is like, but I/O psych RAs do things like research literature reviews, participate in study design/planning, proctor research sessions, conduct data entry and coding, conduct statistical analyses, and write up papers. So any of that sort of experience you get, you can talk about in your personal statement, and that is what faculty will be looking for.

Your GPA is going to be a major problem. A 3.2 would probably drop you off of our list here (at ODU) so most faculty would not even see your complete application unless the reason you have that 3.2 is that you’ve been taking exceptionally difficult classes (e.g., graduate level stats courses). In that sort of situation, the most simple (but least effective) thing to do is to calculate your “last 2 years GPA” and report that alongside your overall GPA on your vita to show that you got your act together before finishing (works best when your last-2-years GPA is 4.0). That sort-of helps but still puts you low on any lists that are created automatically. So for example, at ODU, you would have absolutely zero shot at any of our fellowships (i.e., graduate research assistantships that pay well instead of the graduate teaching assistantships that pay okay) since that is determined entirely based upon raw application numbers (no subjective judgment involved). The more complicated but much better approach is to investigate if you can go back and re-take courses to replace your lowest grades with higher ones (this is often called “grade forgiveness”). Since you’ve already graduated though, I don’t know if that would be possible for you.

If you can’t get that GPA up, that really puts you on a different path. What folks usually do in this situation is apply to I/O Master’s programs and then push hard to maintain a 4.0 in that program while publishing as much as possible. Then use that experience to apply into a PhD program. That is a more difficult path than just having a high GPA the first time around, but the reason it can work is because you are demonstrating that you are capable of excelling in graduate-level work. The major downside is that many programs won’t accept prior Master’s experience as equivalent to their Master’s, so you might end up completing two Master’s degrees on the road to PhD down that path. Some programs also just won’t consider you because you already have a graduate degree. But it is better than nothing.

There are also a few programs that bring in Master’s students but then allow those students to apply to their own PhD program later, if they are high-achievers. I think George Mason has this sort of program. But those Master’s programs are generally highly competitive themselves. Might still be worth looking into.

What if I am not accepted into a doctoral program? Should I go for a masters so I am not falling behind? I have been thinking of switching to social psychology because it is more attainable where I live currently and it is closely related to IO in some ways. I don’t have anyone out here to really help guide me in these areas and the only RA position I could get is more in legal/social psychology since there isn’t much else. I am very stuck at what I should do and feel like I am running out of time!

You can certainly switch if you want. However, a PhD in social is training you to be an academic. There is not really any other career path. And there are a LOT of socials trying to get academic jobs – it is an oversaturated market. Most end up being adjunct faculty, which I wouldn’t recommend.

An RA in social psych is certainly good prep for an I/O grad school app. I would just recommend doing more than that if you can. Emailing (and if you don’t hear anything, calling) faculty at local universities and asking if you can volunteer in their labs over the summer is a good approach.

You should certainly have an application strategy, much like with college. A few stretch schools, a lot right around where you think you have a realistic shot, plus a few backups. Your backups can be either PhD or Master’s, depending on how qualified you are. You also have a gap between PhD and Master’s such that you should know if you got into a PhD program or not by the time most Master’s apps are due. It does not all happen at once.

Thanks for all of that! I won’t be able to do any summer labs because of my strict schedule with taking a course over the summer and working full time. I’m afraid I won’t get accepted into any PhD programs with just a good GPA and one year of being an RA. Thanks for bringing up the social psych issue..I won’t waste anymore time on that and didn’t want that path anyways. Another choice I have if I could stay in AZ would be applying at ASUs business school for organizational behavior. I know this isn’t truly psychology but I was recommended to look into it because it’s at least some type of backup if I just can’t get accepted into any IO programs. Do you think this is a good path to consider? Management/HR actually sounds pleasing to me but I am not sure if it’s a waste because I might have to enter in a masters program first. If I were to get accepted into a PhD Program, how many years is the standard?

Well, being a grad student is an 80-hour-a-week sort of commitment, so I’d recommend getting accustomed to it now. 😉

A PhD in org behavior is also an degree intended to train you to be an academic. If your goal is to go into practice, I would not go for that.

PhD program length is usually more dependent on the student than the program. Coursework is usually 3 to 4 years, including Master’s-level coursework. The dissertation takes anywhere from 1 year to a lot of years. Longest I ever heard was around 13.

I am aware of the dedication of my time that a program requires 🙂 I am just one of those people who are so dedicated to their current job, it’s hard to make room for anything else it seems like! May be one of my flaws ha!

If I were to pursue just a masters in organizational behavior at a business school, that wouldn’t necessarily be academic would it? I am just trying to broaden my goals knowing now how small of a chance I have at getting accepted into a PhD program. Sorry for the continued responses and questions, I don’t have anyone out here in AZ familiar with any of these questions so I really appreciate you responding!

That is traditionally a problem for people. But it is useful to think of it in terms of cost-benefit – everything you do now to increase your chances of starting the career path you want means earning money on that career path earlier, doing work you love earlier, etc. So just be sure your current job is aligned with your long term goals.

A masters in OB is also not really a practical degree. It is mostly intended for people who need to go back to school for career advancement in a particular job and mostly want to talk theory. The practical degree equivalent would be an MBA with an OB (or HR) specialization.

Also, if your GREs are strong enough, one year of RAing with some strong letters is plenty. Everything balances against everything else in an app, so if you know one area will be weaker, you should work to strengthen others. Even if a person has worked in 3 or 4 labs, if their GREs are 50th percentile, they’ll have a hard time getting into most schools. A person with 90th percentile scores but zero lab experience will have the same problem.

Okay, so let’s break down my timeline here and say I will only be going for a masters because the PhD isn’t working out due to some timeline reasonings and not wanting to go academic. If I were to go out of state for a masters in IO, I would have to assume I would live off loans, is that correct? I have also heard that financial aid doesn’t cover individuals seeking extended education in grad school, is that also correct? If I am graduating in the spring of 2016, when should I take the GRE exam? Start applying to schools? Thank you SO much for all the information you have been giving me! I have thought very hard about this and I think a masters in IO is more appealing to me even though I know a PhD is better.

Yes, that’s right. Only PhD programs generally provide stipends/assistantships. There are some exceptions, but they are very uncommon. You can certainly get student loans for your time in grad school, as long as you otherwise qualify. You’ll want to take the GRE at least 3 months before your first application is due so that you have time to re-take if needed. But I would do 6 months if possible, if it were me.

Thank you for that! My only option with anything to do with IO here in AZ is attending Phoenix university but I don’t here too many great things about them. And then there is a masters in psychology with an emphaisis on IO through GCU. If I go that route, what type of careers am I looking at? Thanks!

I generally don’t recommend online programs unless you already have a job lined up that is asking you to go get a degree to be hired or for a promotion. You just don’t get the same networking opportunities. You can certainly get a job in business somewhere, but it typically won’t be anywhere near the salary you’d get with a Master’s from a traditional program, and you won’t be doing the core tasks I think of as “IO”.

I value your input, thank you! I was pretty sure that was going to be an answer…I would rather not do anything online anyways. It looks like I’m pretty stuck here and it’s crushing to think I might have to change my goals due to financial reasons. Are there any other psychology master programs you recommend that might be even slightly related to the IO field?

IO is IO. I wouldn’t go anywhere else. 🙂

I would just urge you to remember that you are investing in a career with grad school, to a greater extent than undergrad. Living on a $15K/year stipend in a strange new city for 4 years in order for your earning power to start at $70K-$100K and only go up from there is a worthwhile investment. Even if you take out an extra $10K in loans every year for 5 years, paid off over 10, that’s only about 5% of your yearly salary once you get out.

Dear Dr. Landers, I know this is not the right topic to consult you this, but it seems popular enough for me to get your attention. I admire your work and your advice. I was wondering if you could let me know how to overcome my overwhelming anxiety. I finished college 5 years ago and was working full time in applied sector when I spontaneously decided I should go back to school to pursue a PhD degree in I/O Psychology. This was already my dream when I was working towards by BS degree, so I had a solid GPA (3,77 / 4,00). I strengthened my credentials with good recommendation letters and an acceptable GRE score (80th percentile in verbal & analytical writing, 65th in quant). My alma mater is a non-US school, but is widely recognized and ranked among top 150 schools in THE ranking. To make the story shorter for you, I got accepted to every master program I had submitted, 3 of which with full funding, although no PhD program responded positive. I never thought I was a good candidate, but faculty members who interviewed me were all impressed with my accomplishments and gave me courage throughout the application and admittance process. After careful consideration (and wavering between competing offers) I accepted a reputable program in Midwest with full tuition waiver & graduate RA position. My concern however is my lack of experience…I do not have any research experience except for a senior group thesis, which happened to be published. I never worked at a lab before I was always an average student in statictics and maths classes, though a brilliant one with social sciences. They will expect me to carry out graduate level research, while in truth I worry day and night that I will screw up and end up losing my tuition waiver. I cannot help but to feel I’m “faking” my capacity while I did not lie on my resume. I did everything what I claim I did on my personal statement, yet this anxiety does not go away. Do you have any piece of advice for me to start taking it easy?

You can also reach me via email and Twitter . 🙂

I’m guessing your lack of research experience is probably what kept you out of PhD programs – you sound like a pretty strong candidate otherwise.

So, some good news and some bad news.

The good news is that the feeling you have is common among graduate students at all levels. At some point in pretty much every graduate student’s career – including before it even starts – that student will question if they really belong/will be successful/should just give up. I recall several conversations with another student in my cohort about how he was thinking about dropping out and opening a bakery. This feeling is called imposter syndrome. I’ve written a little about it here which you might find useful.

The bad news is that it doesn’t ever really go away. Even after you graduate, you’ll have moments where you think to yourself, “I don’t really know what I’m doing” and question if you really belong on the path you’re on. I had several such moments even through my first few years as faculty. It is a combination of high expectations and stakes – you feel like so many people have invested in you, or that you have invested in yourself to a high degree, and the chance of failing at that is much more real than it ever has been before.

As for how to deal with it, you should just remember that you were selected for a reason. The faculty sorted through potentially hundreds of applications and identified, from all of them, you. So they saw something in you. You just have to see it in yourself.

Dear Dr. Landers,

Thank you for your comment…and for assuring me that I’m not a weirdo  I’ll do my best to keep your advice in mind.

First of all, I wanted to thank you for all the insight you have provided on your website about the field of I/O Psychology!

I have decided to apply for a PhD in I/O Psychology and I have a question about two pre-application directions I could possibly take. I have a BA in Sociology and minors in Psychology and Speech and Hearing sciences from IU with an overall 3.3 GPA. I gained 3 years of research experience while pursuing my undergraduate degree – 1 year in a cognitive psychology lab and 2 years in a sociology lab. I was not afforded the opportunity to be included on any publications during my time in the 2 labs. I also graduated with a Masters in Social Work from IUPUI with a 3.9 GPA and induction into Phi Alpha honors society. I am currently licensed as a clinical social worker. I have worked 3 years as a Masters Level Therapist and will be starting a new position next month as a Clinical Social Work Supervisor where I will supervise a small team on the inpatient wing of a local hospital. I am scheduled to take my GRE in 2 months. With all of that being said, I would like your guidance on two possible options I have that I believe may help my chances of being accepted into a reputable I/O program.

Option 1: I could apply for a M.S. in Management which is a short, 15-month program that offers coursework covering topics such as leadership and motivation, organizational learning and change management, management research, global leadership, and a capstone project.

Option 2: I do already have research experience, but not in the area of I/O Psychology. I read your posts about contacting local schools to gain research experience and I am in a position to contact a school that has an I/O program that offers a Master’s degree.

In your professional opinion, which route do you believe would be the best choice? I have reflected on these two options and I am leaning toward option 2 based on your strong suggestion toward gaining I/O research experience prior to applying to a program. Thank you in advance for your time!

I’m a bit confused as to why you are looking at Master’s programs at all if your goal is a PhD.

If you do get a different Master’s degree first, even an I/O Master’s, you will probably need to redo it in the course of a PhD program. There are some exceptions to that, but completion of a second (or in your case, third) Master’s degree is pretty common, although as a non-terminal degree, along that path. The only courses that can potentially (but not always) transfer are statistics and methods courses, and it sounds like that Management MS doesn’t have those. In fact, having a “capstone project” also implies a non-empirical thesis, which means none of those courses would be usable, and the degree would not “count” in the same way an empirical MS would. So for example, literally none of the courses in that MS correspond directly to any courses we have at the Master’s level, so it would effectively count for nothing. This varies a little school to school, but it is not something to bet on. If you want to pursue a PhD, you should apply straight to PhD.

As for research experience, although I/O experience is preferred, it is not the expectation. Any psychology research experience will work, and it also sounds like you already have a lot of labs from which to request recommendation letters. So on that front, I would also recommend you apply straight to PhD, immediately.

It is not worth the time to spend an extra year outside of a degree program before applying to a PhD program when you already have some research experience. With applications due around November/December, as a backup, I would 1) start volunteering for research experience immediately, and 2) apply to Master’s I/O programs only as a backup. Then, if you don’t get into any PhD programs, you will still have options (i.e., you can choose at that point to either keep volunteering and apply again the next year or take a Master’s offer, if/when you get one).

Hi Richard!

I’m currently volunteering 12 hours with a lab in the business school at my research institution but the professor is a social psychologist and her work is basically social psychology.

There is another professor at the business school who has a PhD in Social Psychology whose lab does a lot of OB related work that I’m interested in. Do you think its necessary for me to try to get into a lab in the psych department, or is what I’m doing fine for I/O grad school?

As far as doing an honors thesis in the psychology department, I have found a psychology faculty mentor who is okay with co-sponsoring my project, which would make me eligible to do a Psychology Honors Thesis with the professor from the business school.

As far as grad school, it seems that it may be better for me to continue doing research with the business school, especially since their projects interest me a lot more than the Psychology department ones. They are looking at Entrepreneurship and Leadership, which is related to my ultimate interest in specializing in leadership and motivation. If going into the business labs is not preferable, there is a psychology lab that investigates pro social emotions that I want to get involved with just out of personal interest in their topic.

It is my first semester at my new school since I’m a transfer student, so adding 2 more labs at the same time doesn’t seem wise. I really want to get involved in both but feel that I should add one at a time just to make sure I have a manageable workload. Should I email both and just see who is taking in RA’s? Do I/O grad schools have a preference over those involved in I/O work?

Thank you so much for your help!!

I’m not sure if you mean you’re working for the OB prof now or if that’s someone different, but that sort of experience sounds just fine. Micro OB, Micro HRM and IO are equivalent as far as lab experience goes. I would just avoid Macro labs (e.g., people who look at stock performance a result of HR policy). At the micro level, it’s pretty much the same.

I wouldn’t say there’s much harm in working in multiple labs; you’ll need 3 letters anyway. One of our undergrads here is in 3 labs; it’s unusual but not unheard of (and would certainly make you stand out application-wise, if you could manage it well). I’d actually recommend, if they’re open to it, to volunteer for each part time (e.g. 5 hours) just to get a sense of which lab you like best or would have the most opportunities as a result of (e.g. better chances at an independent project), and then work more in that lab.

Working in the social lab wouldn’t hurt, but I wouldn’t leave an I/O-ish lab to do that. It’s not so much a “preference”, but if I saw someone that was working in OBHR and then left it to work in social, I’d wonder why. You don’t want the people reviewing your application to ever wonder why.

Thank you for your reply! To clarify, I’m currently in a OB related lab, and am looking to get into a different OB related lab that’s also in the business school and under a professor who is a social psychologist.

I plan on sticking with the OB lab for the next two years that I’m here, and my lab manager has already made it quite clear that she’s happy to keep me around. My question is directed towards how I should go about choosing the other labs that I get involved with. If I add on another social lab, and another business school lab, would that be fine?

Also, do you know if people are generally still taking in RA’s throughout the entire semester? I know my best shot would have been at the beginning or end of a semester, but I wanted to make sure that I could manage my workload so I want to add one lab at a time. I went through my first round of midterms last week and did quite well on them so I am now confident that I can take on at least one more lab, if not two more. Will researchers be understanding of my desire to play it safe? I don’t want to come off as lazy since I am applying quite late, but I’m also hesitant to defend myself by explaining that I’m already in other labs and wanted to add labs one at a time. Do lab managers care if I’m in other labs?

Sure, sounds fine.

Timeline for RAs varies by lab. Researchers will understand, but the issue is if they happen to have tasks for RAs to complete right now; if they don’t, they have no need for you. Lab managers will not care if you’re in other labs as long as you always meet your deadlines and show up where you’re supposed to, i.e., as long as your work in one lab doesn’t interfere with another.

So during my sophomore year of college, I presented two different research projects at an undergraduate student conference. One of them was a group project that I created the presentation for, and the other was a project that I conducted and presented on my own. From what it seems like, the abstract may get published in the anthology for the undergrad student conference.

A couple of opportunities have come up for me to submit the paper to get published in other undergraduate research journals, or to submit the project to other conferences. It is a possibility for me to find a research supervisor from my new institution (i’m a new junior transfer student at my school) to help me out with the project as well. Do you think it is worthwhile for me to chase getting published or submitting to conferences over the next two years? Or is this just a lot of work with not much gain?

To put this in perspective of my other research experience, I will very likely be doing an honors thesis next year, and will likely be in 3 labs by next semester. I’m also currently trying to develop my own I/O related project since I’m now in a lab with a professor who is a social psychologist who works and researches in the business school.

As always, thank you SO MUCH. You are amazing and your help is greatly appreciated 🙂

You should definitely present each project at a conference, if you can. You shouldn’t be submitting the same project to more than one conference, though – that’s a self-plagiarism issue – so you’ll want to be sure the place you sent each project is the right place. There is some value in undergrad conferences, but if there’s any chance to submit it a national or international conference, that is much more impressive – and if that SIOP, it would also give you an opportunity to reconnect with some of the faculty/current students at the school you will attend.

Publication, on the other hand, is definitely worth it. If you can get published in pretty much any peer-reviewed journal as first author, that is a significant boon to your application. If you can get published as a second or third author in a decent journal, that’s also still probably better than any conference presentation.

I’m a Junior at an Ivy-league school majoring in Psych who wants to pursue a graduate degree in I-O psych. I switched majors and took my first psychology class my sophomore year so I feel very behind in research experience although I have a good GPA (3.8/3.9).

Since the beginning of Sophomore year, I’ve been a research assistant or a Professor who graduated from Harvard with a doctorate in Human Development and Psychology, but is in the Education department at my school because her research is focused on child cognitive development.

Will this hurt my graduate school resume because she is in the Education department? I’ve also had research internships at corporate companies over the summers, but am not sure if this helps my grad school resume at all. I’d appreciate any insight you have!

Thank you so much Richard!

Your research advisor’s pedigree isn’t really relevant to applications, nor is her graduate training, nor is her department. What will be relevant is the type of research she is doing that you are helping with. If it is psychological research – and more technically, if you’re doing the sorts of tasks that a psychology research assistant normally does, such as in-person study proctoring, literature reviews, presentations, etc – then you’re fine. It is those experiences that you will want to talk about in your personal statement, and that is where this will matter.

Research internships are basically the same. Did you work directly in HR or OD? If so, can you relate the work you did there to I/O, and to your story related to why you’re interested in an I/O career? Did you do psychology-type research during the internships and have experiences you can describe? If no to all of that, then they don’t particularly matter. If yes, then certainly mention them in your statement. Either way, they should be line items on your vita.

Hello Richard!

I want to start off by saying that your site has been very informative. It has also been very intimidating for me. I am a recent graduate from a UC and did not realize I was interested in this field until recently. As an undergraduate, I did not get very much lab experience or a high GPA. I worked in a Social Psychology lab for my last 6 months my senior year, and received a 3.2 GPA. After reading pervious comments, I calculated my GPA from the last two years and it is a 3.43 (still pretty low). I am concerned about my likelihood of acceptance into any program.

As of now, I want to do more applied work and not a career in research. I am wondering if this is even a possibility for me at this point? I am also trying to gain job experience to help strengthen my application, but much like everyone else here I have no idea where to start. Do you have any recommendations for what kind of experience to gain? I am not sure what to do next, and I want to be realistic about my options. I would greatly appreciate any advice you have for me.

It really depends on what sort of transition you’re thinking. If you want to just get a degree and get a job somewhere new, you’re going to want a degree from a high quality institution. Since research is not your passion, it sounds like you want a terminal Master’s degree. So the question is really – what do you need to do to get accepted in an IO terminal Master’s degree program?

As you suspect, the GPA is going to be your biggest problem. The easiest way around that is to get a stellar GRE score. So I’d recommend, immediately, that you get one of those GRE practice tests and see where you fall. If you are in the top 10% for both Verbal and Quant, you can apply straight to I/O Master’s programs right now regardless of your GPA, and you’ll probably get in. As that number gets lower, the wisdom of that plan does too.

If you have normal-for-Master’s-applicant GRE scores, which is probably 50th percentile or higher, then your GPA will harm you in relation to other applicants who have that too. The way to fix that is to either 1) get another degree so that this GPA is not your most recent GPA or 2) bury it with other accomplishments.

To do #1, you might see if your university allows you to retake your lowest-scoring classes, even post-graduation, as a way to boost your GPA. You might alternatively take new harder classes as a non-degree-seeking student. If, for example, you took a graduate level statistics course and got an A, that would go a long way toward demonstrating you can succeed at Master’s level coursework somewhere else.

To do #2, you would want to get research experience, which means volunteering 5-15 hours a week for a local psychology, OB or HR research lab at a university. Research is job experience for an I/O applicant. Even if you don’t want a career in research, the acts of understanding, interpreting, and applying research to workplace problems are literally what I/Os do for a living. So the more of that you can do now, the better you’ll be able to demonstrate that you know what you’re getting into.

I’m an undergraduate student at a public university with four I-O faculty members. I will apply to PhD programs in the fall of 2018. I’m a research assistant with a prominent role in a clinical psychology lab. I enjoy the work that I do. Although I’m aware that I-O PhD programs put an emphasis on doing research in general (rather than requiring I-O research), my concern is how I will be viewed as an applicant from my university. In other words, would it be a concern that I was not part of an I-O lab from a university that has four I-O faculty members? They generally accept very few students every semester. I figured it would be better to stay with my current mentor and build a stronger relationship. What is your opinion? Thank you!

Well, it depends on what you mean by “concern.” I don’t think anyone would hold it against you, but if you could get a letter from one of those people, your app would likely be significantly stronger, especially if the program is prominent within the IO community.

Hello Dr. Landers

I am apply to PhD programs this fall and was wondering how I would structure my personal statement in order to match the “fit” of the programs that I will be applying to. I was wondering how would you know which faculty will be recruiting from that department?

Also, do you have any knowledge of Claremont Graduate University? I am from California, and this is the only I.O. PhD program there.

I think you have it backwards. You are writing your letter about you, and you are applying to programs where you fit. If you have strong research interests, you should be talking about them in your letter and explaining which specific faculty members will help you achieve your career goals given those research interests. If you don’t, you should say that instead, although it doesn’t hurt to mention a few faculty that you think you’d be a particularly good match for, for whatever reason.

The only way you know is if 1) they tell you or 2) you ask. So I’d check their webpage for that information. If it’s not there, you will need to email them.

The best I/O PhD programs are all in the midwest and east coast. Master’s is a little more diffuse. I don’t know anything about Claremont specifically.

I had a question about regarding what I should do for my undergrad. I am a community college student transferring to a UC in the fall of 2017. I want to specialize in I/O psychology; however, none of the UC’s offer this specific track for the undergraduate level. The closest I can get is with UC San Diego, who offers a BS in Social Psychology and then I can minor in Management. UC Irvine also offers a BS in Psychology & Social Behavior and I can also minor in Management. UC Berkeley (my third option) does not however, they just offer a general psychology degree, but it is the best psychology program in the nation, just short of stanford university. In the interest of attending graduate school, is it better that I attend a less prestigious UC and take a track that is quite similar to I/O, or would it be better to attend the most prestigious UC that is just a general psychology degree? I have also talked to UCI and UCSD and they have quite a few students that are interested in I/O (and even have a SIOP group) , but I cannot find much about I/O from UC Berkeley. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! 🙂

I doubt it matters that much. Those are all fine schools, and most grad programs will be more concerned with your GRE scores anyway. If I were you, I would probably go for Berkeley because school reputation does matter in contexts where you don’t go to grad school, and Berkeley is a better backup plan. Berkeley does have a business school with Management faculty – they’re probably the people you’d want to try to work with: http://haas.berkeley.edu/Phd/academics/management/faculty.html

I was admitted to a PhD program for I/O at a reputable school (the only PhD I applied for). However, I really am not 100% confident in pursuing a PhD like I thought I was previously. I was also admitted to highly ranked Master’s programs, and I am considering going the Master’s route even though I was admitted to a PhD already. Would it be crazy to do this? Would I still have a chance at getting into a PhD after finishing my Master’s or does it look worse? I’m afraid it’s just a fluke that I got into a PhD program in the first place haha.

So… there are a lot of pieces of what you’re saying. 🙂

First, if you got into a PhD program, you’re qualified. PhD program don’t make admittance decisions lightly. Or more specifically, because (decent) PhD programs are funded, it actually means they believe in you sufficiently that they are planning to spend money on you to get you through school. That’s big, and you deserve it. It sounds like you have a bit of what is called impostor syndrome. Very very normal. I would not let that drive your decision. Easier said than done, but maybe this will help: http://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2013/11/fraud.aspx

Second, what you’re describing doing could be reasonable if you decide that research is 100% not the career you want. But you should make that decision based upon your intended career path, not because you suddenly feel unqualified. It is harder to get into a PhD program when you already have a master’s, so it is not a decision I would make lightly. Even if you do get a master’s and then apply to a different PhD program and get in, you may need to retake classes or even earn a second master’s degree. So if think you even MIGHT want a PhD, you should go for it now! It’s an opportunity that many want and few get; don’t turn it down just because you’re scared. It’s time to step up and shine!!

I am currently an undergrad psychology major going into my junior year. I hope it is not too late to be looking for research experience! I wanted to ask if it was alright to apply to any research lab, for instance, a lab researching autism? Should research be geared towards an I/O program or is any topic fine?

Thank you for your time!

Sure. It is slightly more impressive if you can get research experience in I/O – and it might help make your personal statement more convincing – but it is not “required.” In general, the closer you are to I/O, the better – so I/O is better than other psych is better than political science is better than biology. So any psych research experience is better than none.

I have been combing through this site and I just want to say I think it’s amazing and I appreciate that you take the time to thoroughly answer the comments.

Like many of the people above, I am wondering how I should get started on my path to a PhD program in I/O or if I even qualify. I just finished my undergrad in May and studied Psych, Classics, and Education Studies. My overall GPA is low (3.28) and my psych major GPA is probably 3.5. While I was at school I had 5 on campus jobs, was a 4 year varsity athlete, and helped start a committee for inclusion in the athlete space. I have done literature reviews and research courses at university, but never formally worked in a research lab. I currently work for a large Investment Banking company/financial services firm in Human Capital Management. I have looked to join the org. research team while there, but I’ve been aligned to learning and development. So far I’ve been able to do some internal research projects; work on continuing education programs; pull insights, create impact reports, and come up with recommendations for upcoming programs for management/executive coaching/inclusive leadership. I was wondering if with my work experience, my low GPA, and the fact that I haven’t formally worked in a psych lab would I even have a chance at being considered by a great PhD program?

That GPA will unfortunately disqualify you for some PhD programs and will make it difficult to get into most others. Your extracurriculars, although they might provide context to understand why you might have a lower GPA, unfortunately do not demonstrate that you are in fact capable of a higher GPA, and that’s what grad school selection committees will be worried about. I would recommend instead targeting a Master’s program that will has the potential to get you presentation and publication experience. If you can maintain a 4.0 in such a program, and preferable get some national or international conference presentations, or even better coauthor on a publication or two, that will put you in a much better position for a PhD application. Unless you have an overwhelmingly positive GRE (>90th percentiles), you are not in a great position to apply to PhD programs without going through a Master’s program first.

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Is an MD/PhD program right for me? Advice on becoming a physician–scientist

We are living in a golden age of biomedical research in which it is increasingly feasible to translate fundamental discoveries into new diagnostic and therapeutic approaches to human illnesses. Inherited diseases are being cured with gene therapy. Cancer cells are being eliminated with less toxic small molecule inhibitors and reengineered T-cells. Direct connections are being made between the central nervous system and prosthetic devices. These efforts are being led by scientists and engineers, some of whom are also physicians. This article is intended to help anyone considering a career as a physician–scientist, but unsure about how best to begin. It is also intended for faculty, staff, and parents who are on the front lines of advising talented students about the options that they have for their future. With this in mind, I have tried to answer common questions about MD/PhD programs, but I have also included information about other paths to becoming a physician who does research.

INTRODUCTION

Because this is a perspectives piece, I will begin it with a confession: I have been a physician–scientist for more than 30 years and I like what I do. I am also a graduate of one of the earliest MD/PhD programs and have been director of the University of Pennsylvania’s MD/PhD program for 20 years. Being a physician who is also a scientist already makes me atypical. According to the American Medical Association, only 14,000 U.S. physicians (out of nearly 1 million) consider research to be their major job, and a search of National Institutes of Health (NIH) databases in 2012 turned up only 8200 physicians who were principal investigators on NIH research grants ( Ginsburg et al. , 2014 ). To put that number in context, there were 28,000 total investigators with NIH grants in 2012. In other words, most NIH principal investigators are PhD scientists, not physician–scientists (MD or MD/PhD).

My primary day (and sometimes night and weekend) job as a card-carrying physician–scientist is overseeing an NIH-funded research team. My clinical responsibilities include taking care of patients with the kinds of bleeding and blood clotting disorders that we study in the lab. Some of these patients have medical problems that are common in the United States. Some of them are true “zebras,” the kinds of patients who get referred to a well-respected academic medical center because physicians are unsure how best to proceed or lack the resources to manage the patient’s problem. I also teach medical students and graduate students, and I direct a very large MD/PhD program. In my spare time, I talk to lots of undergraduates and recent college graduates who are thinking about becoming physician–scientists and wondering whether they should be applying to MD/PhD programs. I meet them at Penn, but also on visits to other colleges and universities. This article is a distillation of some answers to questions that I am commonly asked. If you are an undergraduate trying to decide whether to go to medical school, graduate school, or both, this article may help you. Whatever you decide, I wish you success.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF MD/PhD TRAINING?

MD/PhD programs were established in the 1950s to combine training in medicine and research. They were specifically designed for men and women who wanted to become research physicians, also known as physician–investigators or physician–scientists. Most of the graduates of MD/PhD programs in the 60-plus years since then have become faculty members at medical schools and universities, investigators at research institutes such as the NIH, or leaders in in the pharmaceutical and biotech industries ( Brass et al. , 2010 ). Regardless of where they eventually end up, MD/PhD trainees are being prepared for careers in which they will spend most of their time doing research or translating that research into new therapeutic and diagnostic approaches. It is a busy, challenging, and hugely rewarding career. A study of what has happened to MD/PhD program graduates from 24 schools appeared in Academic Medicine in 2010 and is worth reading not only for the data set, but also for the discussion of what the data mean ( Brass et al. , 2010 ). An even larger outcomes study that includes data on over 10,000 MD/PhD program graduates is scheduled for publication as a AAMC report in April 2018 ( Akabas et al. , 2018 ).

HOW CAN ONE PERSON DO TWO JOBS?

When I was an undergraduate and trying to decide what to do with my life, my mentors told me that I could become a doctor or a scientist, but that trying to combine two busy professions was futile. Many years later, I know that many current undergraduates are being told the same thing. However well-meant, that advice misses the point. The goal of MD/PhD program training is not to prepare you for two unrelated full time jobs. Instead, you should think of physician–scientists as chimeras—blends of a physician and a scientist with the two parts fitting closely together. A more relevant question is: if you are going to become a physician–scientist, do you have to go through an MD/PhD program? I will try to answer that one a bit later in this article. First, I’ll provide some definitions.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN MD/PhD PROGRAM, A COMBINED DEGREE PROGRAM, AND AN MSTP PROGRAM? A BIT OF HISTORY AND A WORD ABOUT FUNDING

None. Programs designed to train physician–scientists go by all of these names. For the most part, the terms are interchangeable, although at some schools “combined degree” programs can include MD/JD and MD/masters programs as well—also VMD/PhD programs, which train veterinary physician–scientists. A list of MD/PhD programs can be found at http://www.aamc.org/students/research/mdphd/applying_MD/PhD/61570/mdphd_programs.html . The NIH uses the term MSTP (short for “medical scientist training program”) to refer to programs at schools that have been competitively awarded special training funds to help support MD/PhD candidates. There are currently 46 MD/PhD programs that receive support from the National Institute of General Medical Studies. A list can be found at http://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/InstPredoc/PredocOverview-MSTP.htm .

When they first started, there were only a handful of MD/PhD programs. I can clearly remember reading a small booklet about applying to medical school that had a single page at the back about MD/PhD programs. Over time, the number of programs has grown. Now there are ∼90 active MD/PhD programs that admit anywhere from a few students per year to 25 or more. The average size of an MD/PhD program in 2017 was ∼90 students in all stages of training. Compared with the many thousands who apply to medical school in each year, only 1900 (∼3%) apply to MD/PhD programs. About one-third of the applicants are accepted, which is similar to the acceptance rate for medical school. 1 When I began medical school, there were very few MD/PhD trainees—I was one of two in my entering class. That has changed considerably. There are currently ∼5500 men and women in training in MD/PhD programs.

Most MD/PhD programs provide tuition waivers for both medical school and graduate school plus a stipend to help cover living expenses. Such fellowships are exceedingly valuable for trainees and very expensive for medical schools and the NIH, so admissions committees work hard to pick the right students for their programs. Despite the high training costs, when I visit other MD/PhD programs to conduct reviews, it is not uncommon to hear deans refer to their MD/PhD program as “the jewel in the crown.” One can easily argue that the existence of MD/PhD programs is evidence of the high value that our society places on physician–scientists.

ARE MD/PhD PROGRAMS LIMITED TO THOSE INTERESTED IN LABORATORY RESEARCH?

The answer varies from school to school. Not all schools offer PhD programs in all disciplines. The majority of MD/PhD students receive their PhD in biomedical laboratory disciplines such as cell biology, biochemistry, genetics, immunology, pharmacology, neuroscience, and biomedical engineering. The names of departments and graduate programs vary from school to school. At some schools, MD/PhD trainees do their graduate work outside of the laboratory disciplines, in fields such as economics, epidemiology, health care economics, sociology, medical anthropology, or the history of science. This is not an exhaustive list, and you should check before you apply to see what is actually offered at any particular school.

Although there is no fully up-to-date and reliable list of which MD/PhD programs offer training in which graduate disciplines, a place to start is at the Website of the AAMC MD/PhD section (which is a good source for other types of information as well). 2

ARE THERE OTHER WAYS TO BECOME A PHYSICIAN–SCIENTIST?

Yes. Definitely. MD/PhD programs are a great choice for people who decide early that that they want to be physician–scientists and have built the necessary track record of academic success and research experience before they apply. Not everyone does this, however, either because he or she did not learn about the option early enough, he or she did not make a decision in time, or he or she does not have an academic and research experience record that supports an application. Not finding out early enough turns out to be a common problem. In my experience, college prehealth advisors know much less about MD/PhD training than MD training—not surprisingly, since only 3% of medical school applicants in the United States every year apply for MD/PhD training. As a result, some people choose (or are obliged) to do MD/PhD training in series, rather than parallel—finishing one degree and then starting the other. The disadvantages of this approach include taking longer to finish training and the likely need to cover the cost of medical school on your own.

I am frequently asked about the strategy of starting medical school and then applying to graduate school as a medical student. Some schools will consider you for transfer into their MD/PhD programs after you have completed a year or two of medical school or graduate school at the same university. Although it is very rare that an MD/PhD program will consider accepting a medical or graduate student from a different school, it does occasionally happen when faculty move from one institution to another and want to bring their students with them. The rules and requirements vary from school to school.

Other programs worth checking out include the NIH MD/PhD program that provides support for the PhD phase at the NIH campus or in Oxford/Cambridge, with the MD training taking place at one of the participating MSTP-designated programs. Note that not all of the MSTP programs have chosen to participate, so if you have your heart set on a specific medical school, you should be sure to ask. 3

Another option is to complete medical school and residency training before doing an extended period of supervised research. A number of Nobel Prize–winning physician–scientists did just that. However, with the increase in the number of MD/PhD training programs nationwide, most people who make the decision to become physician–­scientists while still in college should think hard about doing both degrees together in an integrated MD/PhD program that combines graduate school and medical school into a joint program that currently takes 8 years on average to complete ( Akabas et al. , 2018 ).

DO I REALLY NEED A PhD TO DO RESEARCH? CAN I SAVE TIME BY SKIPPING IT?

The answer to the first of these questions is “Clearly not.” However, while medical school will put you firmly on the path to becoming an accomplished clinician, it does not provide training in how to do research. At some point you will benefit from that additional piece of your education if you intend to become a physician–scientist.

As noted above, in years past it was not uncommon to learn how to do research by doing an extended postdoctoral fellowship after (or instead of) a clinical residency. I am often asked whether it is possible to save time on the path to becoming a physician–scientist by skipping graduate school and just going to medical school. The available data suggest that the answer to this one is “No.” Physician–scientists get their first jobs in academia and their first independent NIH grants at approximately the same age regardless of whether they completed an MD/PhD program or went solely to medical school and then did a more extended postdoc ( Ginsburg et al. , 2014 ). As a result, I normally tell undergraduates that if they are ready to make the commitment before starting medical school, MD/PhD programs offer many advantages, including integrated training, mentored research training, and medical school tuition waivers. On the other hand, if you are sure you want to be a doctor, but less sure about being a scientist, then my advice is to go to medical school and figure out the rest of what you need when you know more about the opportunities that being a physician provides.

HOW DOES MD/PhD TRAINING WORK AND HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE?

The answer varies from school to school, but historically students begin with 2 years of medical school, switch to graduate school in the third year of the program, and then return to finish medical school after completing (and defending) a thesis research project. When I was an MD/PhD student in the 1970s, there was little, if any, communication between the medical and graduate phases of the program. That has changed considerably. Now most programs emphasize integration of the MD and PhD parts of the training, with graduate school courses during years 1 and 2 and clinical experiences during graduate school. Some programs allow completion of 3–12 months of clinical training before the start of full-time graduate training. Be sure to ask how things are organized at schools that you are considering. In programs leading to a PhD in laboratory science, MD/PhD trainees usually spend the summer between the first and second years of medical school working in the laboratory of the faculty member they are considering as a potential thesis advisor. Some programs also ask students to do one of these “lab rotations” in the summer before starting medical school classes as well. Depending on the number of clinical months completed before starting the thesis research, students returning to medical school will need 1–2 years to finish their training and meet the requirements for medical licensure. The stated goal is to complete an MD/PhD program in 7 or 8 years. However, numbers from across the country show that some students finish in 6 years, while others take 10 years (or more). The average currently is 8 years ( Akabas et al. , 2018 ). Note that medical education in the United States continues to evolve. One trend is away from the classic two years of preclinical education followed by 2 years of clinical education. The earlier start in clinical training made possible by shortening preclinical time enables some MD/PhD programs to offer full-time clinical experiences before the start of graduate school. However, some schools are choosing not to do this. The only way to find out what is being done is to ask, if it is not evident from the program’s Website.

HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO COMPLETE TRAINING AFTER GRADUATING FROM AN MD/PhD PROGRAM?

Corny as this may sound, the process is never really finished. Your education will continue throughout your career. A more pragmatic answer is that training will extend beyond medical school and graduate school as you complete your post graduate education. Here are some typical numbers: MD/PhD program, 8 years. Residency, 3–6 years. Postdoctoral fellowship, 3–6 years. For most people the term “postdoctoral fellowship” includes another year or two of clinical training, followed by a return to research for 2 or more years ( Figure 1 ). For example, I completed an MD/PhD program in 6 years, followed by a residency in internal medicine (3 years) and a fellowship in clinical hemato­logy and oncology that was combined with postdoctoral training back in a lab (3 years). After that I became an assistant professor and started my own lab. That timing was fairly typical when I did it. Now it would be considered fast. On the other hand, my job description when I finished included running a research team, looking after postdocs and graduate students, and taking care of sick people with complicated medical problems, so maybe all of that training time was necessary.

Paths to becoming a physician who is also a scientist. Integrated MD/PhD training programs that combine research and medical training are not the only path to becoming a physician–scientist. Alternatives begin with doing a research year in medical school (MD+ in the figure) or just doing the standard four-year medical school education. These save time at the start, but usually require a longer period of postgraduate clinical and research training to reach the point where a job as a physician–scientist in academia becomes feasible. As a result, physician–scientists often arrive at the “get a job” point at about the same age whether they began as medical students, MD+ students, or MD/PhD students, although usually with greater student debt if they have not been in an MD/PhD program. See the text for details.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE GRADUATES OF MD/PhD PROGRAMS?

Short-term, nearly all do additional clinical training. Those who do not are usually headed toward careers at research institutes or outside clinical medicine entirely. Those who do apply for residencies often find that their MD/PhD training makes them particularly appealing to residency programs at top institutions. Long-term, most program graduates end up with careers in which they combine patient care and research. The research may be lab-based, translational, or clinical. Most (75–80%) end up at academic medical centers, at research institutions such as the NIH, or in the pharmaceutical/biotech industry ( Figure 2 ; Brass et al. , 2010 ; Akabas et al. , 2018 ). A much higher percentage of MD/PhD program graduates have ended up in academia than of medical school graduates in general ( Brass et al. , 2010 ). Those who build research careers and apply for NIH research grants find that having the PhD in addition to the MD improves their chances of obtaining funding ( Ginsburg et al. , 2014 ).

Where are they working? Data from 2202 MD/PhD program alumni who have completed all phases of postgraduate clinical and research training. Adapted from Brass et al. (2010) . Industry includes the biotech and pharmaceutical industries. Pvt Practice refers to full-time clinical practice outside of an academic medical center.

HOW DO I APPLY?

The process of application varies from school to school. Some schools have an MD/PhD-focused committee that will screen your application and coordinate the interview and admission process. Other schools consider MD/PhD applicants only after a decision has been made about MD admissions. Finally, some schools consider students for the MD/PhD program only after they have completed a year or more of medical school. Schools that subscribe to AMCAS will ask you to indicate your interest in an MD/PhD program and then to provide additional information as part of a secondary application.

WHEN DO I APPLY?

Most people apply after finishing their junior year in college, but a growing number of applicants finish college and work for a year or more before applying. Some people use the time after college to take courses needed for medical school admission or to gain more full-time laboratory research experience. Some people simply were not ready to make decisions about their future careers and postponed choosing beyond the finish of college. It is a mistake to assume that MD/PhD programs are interested only in applicants who have worked in a lab for a year or more after college. That is clearly not the case, and some of us who direct MD/PhD programs are concerned about the growing percentage of applicants who have waited to apply after they graduate in the mistaken impression that it will improve their resumes. My advice is that for a training path that lasts as long as this one does, it is best to get started as soon as possible.

WHAT DO ADMISSIONS COMMITTEES LOOK FOR?

The answer clearly varies from school to school, but some basic principles apply. In general, admissions committees will look for evidence of academic success, extended research experience, letters of recommendation from people who know you well, and your plans for the future.

• Evidence of academic success. This includes your GPA and MCAT scores, but is not limited to them. Admission committees use a holistic approach and will undoubtedly consider where you went to college and what types of courses you took. They will not necessarily be dismayed if you got off to a slow start, as long as you did well later. They will place the greatest emphasis on courses that are relevant to your chosen area of graduate school training. I have not encountered a program director who seriously believed that the MCAT tests your ability to be a physician–scientist. Nonetheless programs use MCAT scores in a variety of ways, including seeing how you compare with the national pool of applicants and predicting how you will do on the numerous standardized tests that all of us have to take in medical school and beyond.
• Extensive research experience. If you plan to get a PhD in one of the laboratory sciences, then prior laboratory experience counts heavily, particularly if you spent a year or more in the same laboratory. Summer laboratory experience can be helpful because they are usually opportunities to do research full time, but summers are short. Whenever possible, you should try to do research during the academic year, or at least spend multiple summers in the same lab. If you are planning a PhD outside of the laboratory sciences, seek equivalent experiences. The idea is to be sure you like the experience and to create a track record upon which your past performance can be judged and your future success predicted.
• Letters of recommendation. The most important letter(s) are from the faculty members or other senior investigators with whom you worked. The letters should ideally comment on your talents, skills, and potential for success as an independent investigator. If you are working with a senior faculty member, it is very helpful if he or she can compare you with other students with whom he or she has worked. Note that such a letter is not necessarily the most appropriate for an MD-only application. MD/PhD program admissions committees are usually most interested in your talent and ability as a physician–scientist, although they will definitely also consider whether you are likely to become a successful and caring physician. Fortunately, medical schools allow you to submit more than one letter of recommendation.
• Your plans for the future. Because training to be a physician–­investigator is so costly in terms of your time and the school’s resources, your career goals should be compatible with MD/PhD training. Becoming a full-time practitioner is a laudable goal, but does not require a PhD in addition to an MD. Your goal as a trained physician–investigator should be to spend at least 75% of your time on research. You do not need to know the specific problem you want to work on at this point (many do not, and it is likely to change), or with whom you would like to train, but your commitment to becoming an investigator should be clearly communicated in your essays and interviews, and you should have given thought to what will be required.

HOW DO I DECIDE WHERE TO APPLY?

Some applicants have decided that they want to work in a particular field or with a particular faculty member. For them, choosing where to apply is defined by where that faculty member works or where the field is best represented. Most applicants have only a general idea of what they might want to work on in the future and know that their interests are likely to evolve as they are exposed to new things. For them, choice will be defined by issues such as the reputation of the school (hopefully not based solely on U.S. News and World Report rankings!), the success of the graduates of the program (be sure to ask!), and geography. Schools vary in the difficulty of gaining admission. The directors and nonfaculty administrators of MD/PhD programs nationwide are a large pool of resources that you can tap. Most of us get e-mail from future applicants all the time. Take advantage of our willingness to talk with you. Ask questions about the things that are important to you.

FINAL THOUGHTS

I began this perspective with the confession that I am a physician–scientist and I like what I do. It is not unusual these days to encounter articles and opinion pieces that lament the difficulty of becoming and remaining a physician–scientist. I will not cite them here—you can find them on your own. Fortunately, our society is still willing to make a large investment in biomedical research through the NIH and through numerous foundations. If you want to become a physician who discovers the new stuff, there are jobs waiting to be filled. However, you will need good training and great mentorship as you learn the skills needed to be a physician and a research team leader. Good luck with your decision.

Acknowledgments

My thanks to my colleagues who direct MD/PhD programs, the NIH for supporting physician–scientist training (including my own), and the hundreds of MD/PhD candidates and alumni who have taught me so much over the past 20 years.

Abbreviations used:

DOI: 10.1091/mbc.E17-12-0721

1 www.aamc.org/data/facts/enrollmentgraduate/ .

2 www.aamc.org/students/research/mdphd/ .

3 http://mdphd.gpp.nih.gov .

• Akabas MH, Tartakovsky I, Brass LF. (2018). The National MD–PhD Program Outcomes Study. American Association of Medical Colleges Reports.
• Brass LF, Akabas MH, Burnley LD, Engman DM, Wiley CA, Andersen OS. (2010). Are MD–PhD programs meeting their goals? An analysis of career choices made by graduates of 24 MD–PhD programs . Acad Med , 692–701. [ PMC free article ] [ PubMed ] [ Google Scholar ]
• Ginsburg D, Shurin SB, Mills S. (2014). NIH Physician–Scientist Workforce (PSW) Working Group Report. [ Google Scholar ]

Office of the Vice President for Research

Ovpr announces recipients of 2024 discovery and innovation awards.

The Office of the Vice President for Research (OVPR) is honoring 11 faculty and staff for their exceptional contributions to research, scholarship, and creative activity as part of the 2024 Discovery and Innovation Awards .

“ The winners represent the best and the brightest of our University of Iowa faculty and staff, who are making an impact across a range of disciplines,”  said Marty Scholtz, vice president for research. “Their research and scholarship enhance undergraduate and graduate education on campus, and their efforts to expand the frontiers of discovery betters our community, state, and world.”

The OVPR solicited nominations from across campus for the awards, which include: Scholar of the Year, Early Career Scholar of the Year, Leadership in Research, and awards that recognize achievement in communicating scholarship with public audiences, community engagement, arts and humanities, mentorship, research administration and safety. A campuswide event on April 30 will celebrate the winners.

Faculty Awards

Jun Wang , James E. Ashton Professor and interim departmental executive officer in the College of Engineering’s

 Department of Chemical and Biochemical Engineering, is the 2024 Scholar of the Year . The award celebrates nationally recognized recent achievement in outstanding research, scholarship, and/or creative activities. 

Wang’s research centers on the development of novel remote sensing techniques to characterize aerosols and fires from space. He serves as the University of Iowa’s lead investigator on NASA’s TEMPO, Tropospheric Emissions: Monitoring Pollution, which Time magazine named one of its best inventions of 2023. 

“Professor Wang's scholarly endeavors over the past two years stand out as a paradigm of excellence, serving as an exemplary model for both emerging and seasoned faculty members to aspire toward,” said Karim Abdel-Malek, professor of biomedical engineering and director of the Iowa Technology Institute.

James Byrne , assistant professor of radiation oncology in the Carver College of Medicine ( CCOM ), is the 2024 Early Career Scholar of the Year . The award honors assistant professors who are currently involved in research, scholarship, and/or creative activity and show promise of making a significant contribution to their field. 

As a physician scientist, Byrne continues to care for patients while developing novel biomedical therapies for cancer, finding inspiration in everything from latte foam to tardigrades. In his first two years as faculty at the UI, he has earned more that $2.5M in external research funding, including a K08 award from the NIH.

“Dr. Byrne’s scientific creativity stems from both an active and curious mind as well as his ability to bridge diverse fields from engineering to biology to medicine,” said Michael Henry, professor and interim director of the Holden Comprehensive Cancer Center. “These interdisciplinary boundaries are where some of the most interesting and important work is happening today.”

Donna Santillan , research professor and director of the Division of Reproductive Science Research in the CCOM Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, received the Leadership in Research Award , which recognizes research and scholarly accomplishments throughout a career. 

While Santillan’s research has spanned across the field of reproductive science, she has a particular interest in the deadly diseases of pregnancy, including preeclampsia and its intergenerational effects. She designed and directs the Women’s Health Tissue Repository. Santillan’s work has been cited more than 2,700 times, and she has mentored 114 early career scientists and students, a testament to her expansive impact.

“Dr. Santillan has consistently demonstrated an unwavering commitment to fostering the professional and personal development of trainees in research, including myself,” said Banu Gumusoglu, assistant professor of obstetrics and gynecology. “Her mentorship extends beyond the confines of traditional academic settings, touching the lives of many aspiring trainees from high school through residency, clinical fellowship, and faculty levels.”

Stephen Warren , professor of history and American studies in the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences (CLAS), received the Distinguished Achievement in Publicly Engaged Research Award . The award recognizes an individual faculty member who has put addressing public needs and direct engagement with the public, in the service of improving quality of life through research, at the forefront of his or her academic activities.

A prolific scholar of Native American culture, Warren’s research has centered on the Shawnee people of Oklahoma for the past two decades. He has published four books and co-authored the most recent one , Replanting Cultures: Community-Engaged Scholarship in Indian Country, with Chief Benjamin Barnes of the Shawnee Tribe. 

“Over the last two decades, Professor Warren has established himself as a leading community-engaged scholar, and his achievements in research and publishing demonstrate that community engagement and strong scholarship are not mutually exclusive,” said Nick Benson, director of the Office of Community Engagement. “Professor Warren’s work serves as an inspiration for researchers at Iowa and nationally who seek not only to make a difference in academia, but also in our communities.”

Kaveh Akbar , associate professor of English in CLAS, received the Distinguished Achievement in Arts and Humanities Research Award . This award honors distinguished achievement in humanities scholarship and work in the creative, visual and performing arts. 

Akbar joined Iowa in 2022 to serve as the director of the English and creative writing major. In January, his new novel, Martyr!, was published to critical acclaim. Akbar previously published two prize-winning poetry collections and has served as poetry editor for The Nation  since 2021. 

“Akbar’s leadership in the profession and on campus continues: his transformative work in our department not only enriches the academic experiences of 700+ English and creative writing majors, but also enhances the profile of UI as ‘The Writing University,’” said Blaine Greteman, professor and departmental executive officer of the Department of English.

Cara Hamann , associate professor of epidemiology, received the Faculty Communicating ideas Award . This award recognizes excellence in communication about research and scholarship in the sciences and humanities and the study of creative, visual, and performing arts to a general audience directly or via print and electronic media.

Hamann has frequently shared her work on transportation issues, including teen driving, bike and scooter safety, and pedestrian safety, through peer-reviewed journals and extensive media outreach. Her recent op-ed, “The most deadly traffic policy you’ve never heard of leaves you vulnerable, too,” drew widespread attention to a legal loophole in crosswalk laws and appeared in more than 50 news outlets nationwide, including USA Today .

“Dr. Hamann’s work is not only academically rigorous but also accessible and impactful to a

wide audience,” said Diane Rohlman, associate dean for research in the College of Public Health. “Her ability to communicate with clarity, creativity, and passion coupled with her extensive media outreach, exemplifies how she utilizes multiple approaches to address transportation challenges impacting society.”

Bob McMurray , F. Wendell Miller Professor in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences, and Caroline Clay , assistant professor of acting in the Department of Theatre Arts, were recipients of the Office of Undergraduate Research (OUR) Distinguished Mentor Awards . The awards honors mentors’ dedication to making their students research experiences successful.

“I can’t imagine my research journey without Bob’s welcoming kindness, thriving lab community, and confident mentorship, and I am so deeply grateful for his impact on me,” said Hannah Franke, a psychology and linguistics major mentored by McMurray.

“I know I am far from the only student whose life has been impacted by Caroline Clay,” said Isabella Hohenadel, a second-year theatre arts major. “She deserves to be recognized of all of the wonderful work she does and how much she cares about us as students. I cannot think of anyone more deserving of recognition than her.”

Staff Awards

Angie Robertson , department administrator for CCOM’s Department of Microbiology and Immunology, received the Distinguished Research Administrator Award . The award recognizes staff members who performed exceptional service in support of research at the UI by exploring funding opportunities, assisting in grant proposal preparation, submission, post-award administration, and operational support. 

In addition to overseeing every aspect of daily operations for the department, Robertson manages nearly 100 research grants for the department and three longstanding NIH T32 training grants. 

“Angie plays a leading role in our department office, inspiring us to achieve all aspects of our missions ,” said Li Wu, professor and department chair. “She is innovative, collaborative, accountable, and respectful  in her daily work. She exceeds any expectations and sets a great example for staff members in the department.”

Min Zhu , research specialist in the Iowa Institute for Oral Health Research (IIOHR) within the College of Dentistry, received the Distinguished Research Professional Award . The award recognizes staff members who performed exceptional service in support of research at the UI by conducting experiments, collecting, and analyzing results and performing operational duties associated with a laboratory or research program. 

Zhu has worked as a lab bench scientist in the College of Dentistry since 2006, executing experimental work for grants and other research, working closely with IIOHR faculty members, overseeing lab maintenance and environmental health and safety efforts. 

“Beyond her research skills, Dr. Zhu has been an exceptional mentor and educator for my students and other junior researchers,” said Liu Hong, professor of prosthodontics. “Her kindness and willingness to share her knowledge have made her a beloved figure among them.”

Curtis Iberg , manager of sterilization services in the College of Dentistry, received the Innovation in Safety Award, which celebrates exceptional and ground-breaking innovations that advance safety at the UI. Iberg led a major renovation of the College of Dentistry’s instrument processing and sterilization area, with the aim of encouraging better workflow and support for future growth. 

“His innovations in workspace are a valuable asset to the greater University and demonstrates that the most important people to be involved in a space renovation are those that use the area because they can see how the facility can better function and how it can be designed for future needs,” said Kecia Leary, associate dean of clinics.